Episode 40 – Outsourced


TOPIC: Outsourcing
Guest: Jon Jones, Art Outsourcing Manager with smArtist

Sooooo, how have you been these last five months? Did you do something new with your hair? It looks great!

Nothing too crazy new from our side of things. A couple of us shipped some games and we all still live in the same places as the last episode. So anyone that bet Ryan would now be living in Borneo and I would be living in Alaska by the next recording, pay up!

This episode we talk about our love of smaller, downloadable games, a lack of gateway co-op experiences on consoles, organizing the Animation Bootcamp for GDC 2013, and layoffs. Then we all knife fight Jon with our words about how outsourcing is trying to take our jobs.

We have been meaning to have Jon on to talk about this for literally years as outsourcing is a topic that most devs only see from one angle and after many failed chances, we finally found the right time to record all four of us. Which for the record is late at night into early morning. On a random Wednesday.

Which means, as a bonus, you get to hear me transform from a passionate game developer into a passionate cat lover over the course of 2 hours without the use of any alcohol. So join us won’t you?!

Download link (right-click and save as)


Show Notes:
Good Guy Jon Jones Meme
Lessons on Perspective
Predicting Layoffs
Layoff Survival Guide

Sister Cat


  1. Thank you Deborah for your comment and honesty. While we were obviously taken aback by the “joke”, by not explicitly stating it as racist and allowing it to just slide, we quietly condoned it, And that is terrible. Thank you for exhibiting the courage we lacked at that moment.

    We try to hold ourselves to a higher standard on this podcast, but we entirely failed our audience and ourselves in this instance. I apologize on behalf of everyone involved and will personally see to it that we do not allow it to simply slide again.

    I have edited those comments out of the episode. I went back and forth as to whether it best to leave it in there, and call it out as such, or to remove it and have the conversation here. Going off of your comment and email correspondence, it seemed removing it was best in this instance.

    If there is more I can do, I welcome the opportunity to do so. I actively want to make sure this podcast is representative of what is best in animation and game development, and not the worst.

    Thank you so much Deborah for all of your continued comments about the podcast, and especially this one.

  2. Interesting episode, once again.

    I have to agree totally with outsourcing being a possible time sink, IF there’s not a dedicated dude(s) to handle the communication between the studio and outsourcing studio. We had to outsource some rigging tasks and at first I had to be the contact dude, along with my own tasks, and man… even that “little” communication with one rigger ate so much of my own work time. Fortunately we have now a new lead, who manages all the art outsourcing. Definately something studios should know, that if there’s even small amounts of outsourcing happening thorough the whole development cycle, there should be atleast one dude hired to handle all the communication traffic it causes or else some guy is probably going to burn out doing 2 jobs as managing outsourcing can be a full time thing.


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